Since yesterday there has been overwhelming attention given to Provo’s proposed daytime curfew law. I’d like to thank everyone who has taken their time to comment and give thought to this ordinance.
A number of residents have written and called asking for additional information regarding this proposed law. As always, the recordings of the discussions as well as their minutes are available on the city’s website. I would like to clarify a few points of concern:
- An older version of this legislation as a secondary offense is being circulated. This is not likely to be the final draft that the council will consider. During our most recent meeting on this proposed legislation, a motion was made that created this law as a primary offense rather than a secondary, providing officers with the option of stopping children outside during school hours without other probable cause (See video). It’s not clear what form this legislation will take when the council finalizes it on Tuesday. The new law should be available sometime before this meeting but it has not yet been distributed to the council or the public.
- Since the beginning of this discussion I have been very open in sharing my opinion. While this legislation has been drafted with the best of intentions, I firmly believe that it could have negative consequences for our community. I don’t believe there is any intent to harass home schoolers or those of us that happen to look young. However, we should not make laws which make such harassment possible as well as legal. It just doesn’t make sense.
- During this process we as a council have given much time and consideration to the views of the legislation’s proponents. We have not yet had a chance to listen to the views of parents that homeschool, attend private schools, or have any other situation in which this law could cause inconvenience or harm. I think those opinions are just as important as those that want this law passed.
- I understand that people have different views on this ordinance. Wherever you stand on this issue, I want to hear it. Please continue to share your opinions leading up to and at our next council meeting.
I’d like to end by sharing this email I received.
Dear Mr. Beck,
I was a homeschool kid in California and I was often stopped by police and harassed and interrogated for being out and about during school hours. We would ride our bikes from one side of town to the other to attend orchestra at the junior high. My parents made us school id cards and still this was not enough. We were told it looked homemade and not official enough. We then had to get a state issued id and a letter from the school district, both of which we had to keep on us at all times. To this day I still have an anxiety attack every time a cop pulls up behind me. Every time we were stopped it made me feel like I was a bad kid and heaven forbid is someone I knew saw me being questioned by a cop. There is already a system put in place to deal with truant kids. Lets enforce the system we have. I don’t think any kid, especially if they are not breaking the law, should be subject to or treated as a second class citizen. I know there are many kids who, like me, graduate early at 16 or 17 years and go on to attend college. This is a college town what about those kids. This is a bad idea! We have truant officers assigned to every school, we pay them, so let’s use them. Yes, there needs to be consequences for delinquent children but lets not make a sweeping assumption that all children who are not in school during school hours are delinquents. I want my kids to trust and respect the police and I don’t see this proposed ordinance as helping me to do that. Why does the city feel they need this ordinace? Are we really having a problem with delinquent kids running a muck all over Provo? I live downtown, and I’ve not see anything like that in my neighborhood. So if this is happening, where is it happening? I’m strongly opposed to this ordinance and I want my voice to be heard…Thank you for informing me of this situation and for giving me the opprotunity to make my voice heard.
Sincerely,
Sariah Price
Related posts:
It’s unfortunate that the police will be the ones taking all of the flak when innocent people (children and adults) are being harassed for their ‘papers’. After all, most of them are just trying to do their job. I can’t say the same for my councilwoman.
I hear different things about this, it seems like no one can make up their mind… Is it a measure to crack down on truancy? If so, why not give truant officers the authority to do their job, and go after _actual_ truants? Is this a measure to crack down on gang activity? If so, why isn’t the ‘secondary offense’ provision good enough? Let the police do their job and go after the _actual_ lawbreakers? I sure hope someone can answer these questions before this measure is voted on.
Well, I need to go get started growing my beard so I don’t get arrested for walking the dog, or something.
Posted by John D | 02/24/2011, 2:56 amMidge Johnson is the council member in this video who is saying that having homeschool children carry around “papers” is no different than having to go through security at the airport. Really Midge??? Really you can’t be serious!
Posted by Home School Mom | 02/24/2011, 9:13 pm“and usually if they’re homeschooled or whatever, they’re not going to be looking suspicious…” — Midge Johnson
If you’re suggesting that the police will only be stopping and asking for ‘papers’ from those who “look suspicious”– that sure sounds like a secondary offense to me (which Midge seems to oppose).
The primary offense sounds like it makes the act of just being ‘out there’ something suspicious and worthy of police haras.. er.. attention.
Posted by John D | 02/25/2011, 5:45 pmThe only countries I know that require citizens to carry papers while in their own neighborhoods are communist. The history of Nazi Germany comes to mind.
Midge Johnson doesn’t seem to be aware that many citizens feel that the things that go on at airports violate the 4th amendment to the Constitution. Much of the law targets the wrong people. Jefferson said that people who give up freedom to have security will have neither.
I am very much opposed to this ordinance. I don’t want my homeschooling children of any age to be required to carry papers (and not lose them) and be afraid that the police will hunt them down every time they go to a friend’s house to play or have music lessons.
When we go outside, are my kids going to look suspicious if they fire off baking soda/vinegar rockets, reenact knights’ battle, or make chalk art on our sidewalk?
All honest people should be free from harassment from law enforcement.
Posted by ShelleyJ | 02/26/2011, 6:05 amThe above quote is from Franklin, not Jefferson. My mistake.
Posted by ShelleyJ | 02/26/2011, 6:21 amSeems like this came up back in the 80′s or early 90′s while we were living there. I am not sure what problem this ordinance is attempting to address. Provo already has truancy laws. Certainly if a youth, or anyone, is causing trouble, that is a reason to stop the child on the street. But a child who is causing no trouble has no need to be stopped. If the child is registered in public school, the school knows he’s not there and will act accordingly.
Could it be that Provo Schools are losing students to homeschooling or charter schools because of the poor quality, and this is a lame attempt to put the fear into the parents to get them back into school (making it a money issue)? Or is it truly a case of a city council being swayed by someone who believes more in Communism and less in the rights guaranteed our citizens through our marvelous Constitution? Midge Johnson must not fly anywhere. Maybe the City Council could have a field trip to the SLC Airport and let Midge experience firsthand having her 4th Amendments rights taken away from her.
Posted by JudyC | 02/26/2011, 4:24 pmMess with my kids one time. If any city official of any sort harasses my kids, puts their hands on my kids, etc. there will be trouble. I do not want to have to raise my kids to believe that the authorities are evil, but if this passes…..I will. I will teach them to avoid authorities of any type at all times and to say nothing to them ever. I will put a yellow star on their lapels and let them know what the city thinks of them and their parents as well as the rest of the citizens of Provo. Got it Midge?
Posted by Matt C | 02/27/2011, 4:35 amThis is what happens when community organizers with no respect for individual rights/liberties get elected to office.
Isn’t the proper role of government supposed to be to protect life, liberty and property?
I guess some people feel that government should exist to regulate our lives from cradle to grave. The rights to privacy and the peaceful free exercise of conscience become necessary casualties for the “greater good.”
This ordinance is so disturbing.
Posted by Jim Davis | 02/28/2011, 11:11 amWe go through airport security because airline travel isn’t a right, it’s a privilege. So, is leaving the house a privilege for our kids? Our children shouldn’t need “papers” for that.
Let’s give this law an accurate label: the House Arrest Ordinance.
Posted by Ryan | 02/28/2011, 5:26 pmSince when is it a good idea to restrict everyone for the sake of a few who make bad choices? I agree with the commenter who said that this reminds them of Nazi Germany. It’s very gestapo-like and not very American at all.
I’ve lived in Provo for quite some time, and have NEVER seen any real issues with Truant kids, no where near the level it would take for me to feel like this drastic measure was even necessary. In fact, I’d rather move OUT of provo regardless of cost if this is going to be how they treat their citizens, minors or not.
I teach my children that the police officers are the good guys, that they should trust them. How do I explain to them after an arrest and interrogation that they are still the good guys and should be trusted after they have been treated that way?
How are they going to determine who should or should not be in school? by looks? Whoooa… hold on there. Isn’t that discrimination? Don’t our children have rights as well? I might see this as necessary in a larger city – but Provo is hardly that desperate.
I don’t want my sister to visit with her children only to have her kids arrested because they are school aged and not in school here… simply because they LOOK like they should be. I don’t understand why on earth anyone thinks this is a good idea at all.
The councilwoman who seems to think this is like airport security has failed to understand that the airport security is about terrorism.. truant children are no where NEAR that level of concern. Comparing the two is beyond obnoxious.
Posted by L Smith | 02/28/2011, 6:01 pmI am a grandma of homeschool kids. They ride their bike to my home. Do not make this illegal. Please allow grandma viits!!!
Posted by Grandma Paulen | 03/01/2011, 4:50 pmThere have been reports circulating that Mayor Curtis sent a letter to the city council this morning withdrawing his administration’s support for the ordinance as it stands. And furthermore he has requested the council remove it from the agenda for tonight’s (Mar 1) meeting.
The published agenda has not changed, nor can I find any source to this imformation.
Mr. Beck– perhaps you can confirm whether there’s substance to this report, or whether it’s merely a distraction?
Posted by John D | 03/01/2011, 5:32 pm